In a discussion with MSNBC’s Nicolle Wallace, former FBI official Frank Figliuzzi compared Donald Trump’s psychological hold on his allies to that of a “cult.”

At the time the two were discussing whether prosecutors would be able to convince Mark Meadows to cooperate, Mediaite reports.

Wallace mentioned Trump’s quote on Meet The Press Sunday when he said he hoped Meadows would stay loyal and not flip because “I didn’t do anything wrong.”

“Yes, we can absolutely compare this to both an organized crime group and a cult,” Figliuzzi said. “That is, both are incredibly hard to get out, it tears people up as they try to determine their own fate and realize they have to choose between loyalty based on fear — fear of retribution, fear of physical harm, fear of being ostracized from the group. Or some positive motivation, a carrot, that says, maybe if I hang in with this guy, I’m going to get some kind of personal benefit. I’ll get a pardon if he wins. I’ll get some kind of role in the next administration if he wins — a big if. And that’s what’s going through Mark Meadows’ head right now.”

That’s not all he had to say.

“And if you’re the FBI agent or the prosecutor that’s trying to flip him, it is incredibly difficult to do. Especially while every day, former President Trump is indeed intimidating a potential witness, is indeed inciting potential violence, whether he intends to or not. I don’t think he cares.”

“But we know from a University of Chicago study last July, over 12 million Americans support the idea of the use of force to bring back Trump into office. That’s got to also include in that universe, violence against witnesses. Violence against people like Mark Meadows. All of this going through his head, all of it being thought through by prosecutors and agents as they try to figure out the best way to get him to flip.”

So it’s no wonder that Meadows is being hesitant. The other 18 co-defendants in the Georgia election, where Trump has also been charged on a plethora of counts, may also be worrying about this.

Trump of course continues to maintain his innocence and has pleaded not guilty.

Were you expecting anything else?

Frank Figliuzzi claims the Trump ‘Cult’ will make it very difficult to flip witnesses ….such as Mark Meadows. pic.twitter.com/oB5ppFIpTq

— Nicole Hickman James (@nicolejames) September 19, 2023